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A recording of the Feb. 16, 2017 After Hours event for men, featuring a panel discussing topics that make for a great marriage. Panelists from left to right: Bob Schwahn (Lead Pastor of Journey Church), Elijah Scheidler, Doug Hartzheim and Jim Keena (Lead Pastor of E-Free Church). Moderated by Daniel Hartzheim (far right).

Automated Transcript

Thanks for coming everybody. Without you there is no party.

So we appreciate you coming. Even all 45 of you that didn’t respond.

Sorry about running out of food, you know, that hasn’t happened before. I guess it’s kind of a good problem to have. But for those of you that didn’t get brisket or the chicken the chicken was the backup but the backup to the backup is we just put about 40

More winners.

So the last thing you guys just keep munching on that stuff or whatever. And it’s good to have you

just want to share a couple things, little couple housekeeping things. First of all, after our started six or seven months ago, just a bit of an experiment. We wanted to create an event for guys just to kind of hang out, be real, honest with each other.

A couple of the goals in that is always to eat together. And as we recognize it, we’re that we’re on a journey. And we’re somewhere along the spectrum of, of, you know, our final day on this planet and stepping into eternity. We want to give God attention and space in our life, and we want to explore the Almighty, the creator. And so we always try to read a verse or two so I’m going to get that done now because this will be relevant to our discussion tonight.

didn’t have time to

Good chairs today we started realizing we were going to have, you know, upwards of 60. And, and we had 68 chairs in here that I counted. And we just didn’t have a chance to make a chair run. So next time we’ll have more chairs, you can sit on these tables over here, if you’re not if you don’t have a seat, I think these are hold you I tested them out a minute ago. And

at least they held one of us up. So there’s a seat right here. If the guy if you have an open seat, raise your hand. And

so tonight we’re going to talk about relationships. Daniel will give an introduction on kind of how we’re going to map this out tonight. And I just want to encourage you that

you know, I think it was the very first one of these

last September, and somebody came up after me and he said, Hey, you know, I’ve had some infidelity issues, haven’t been faithful to my wife. And this is really good for me and I’m turning the corner and patching that relationship up. And it’s from then until now it’s actually been it’s been surprising how many guys that we’ve run into

That have experienced some heartache

dysfunction in their in their family or marriage or, or just life, you know, and they’re just they’re just struggling. So we’re all here to help each other. But I want to encourage you tonight that to know that if you’ve broken relationship with your, with your spouse, or your significant other or family member or work person tonight is to encourage you into to take inventory and say, you know, hey, I can do that I can work on a few things I can, I can adjust some, adjust some behavioral issues, and move in the right direction. And if you’ll just draw close to God and let him speak into your life, I think great things are ahead for you. And with that, I’m going to read

this short little scripture that you’re probably familiar with. It says wives submit, submit to your own husband’s as to the Lord. And that’s it.

The rest of the page is blank.

A minute recording this are we?

Yeah, it will let it that out if that if that were all they said it would be a sorry deal. But it says for the husband is the head of the of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church, his body and his himself, its Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit everything to their husbands. Husbands,

love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word so that so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle, or any such thing that she that she might be holy and without blemish. In the same way, husbands in the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself, for no one ever hated his own flesh but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does just as Christ does the church because we

Members of his body, therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. This mystery is profound. And I am. And I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church. However, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. And so tonight, we’re going to talk about not just marriage relationships, but in general,

I should say, we are going to focus primarily on that. But, you know, if you’re not married, I don’t want to tune you out, I want you to realize that there’s so much to this relational behavior, when we, when we protect our spouse or those that are close to us and we nurture and we, we build them up and lift them up and we show respect to them. And so with that, Daniel is going to tell us where we’re headed, and we’ll go from there. So,

I don’t know how much you can hear me but we’ll we’ll just work with it.

How many people are married in the room?

I watched the video this weekend and it shows no I got I got one on. So I’m good.

When you think back to when you’re dating, your first dates with your spouse, for those of you who are in the dating stage of life,

just those initial dates and your engagement, it’s all exciting. And you’re so into it, and you do anything for that person. And then you get married and it is like it starts to shift. And it starts to become like, Why do I have to do this or maybe you just start to take for granted one another. And I’m about six years into my marriage. And

and it’s it’s interesting at this point to think

If I don’t, if I don’t be intentional about my marriage,

there’s no guarantee that it’s going to be a great marriage, it’s probably not. And there’s no guarantee that we will be together 20 years from now. And so I like to think of the marriage relationship as, as with any relationship, a garden

gardens, you have to constantly cultivate, and weeds grow quickly. And but but you’re growing that garden because you want it to be a beautiful thing. And that’s the opportunity that marriage affords. And

one of the things about the Christian worldview and what the Bible teaches us is that God Himself is in relationship with himself. It’s a great mystery, but it’s, he’s one God and yet there’s three aspects to him. It’s we call it the Trinity. You’ve probably heard of that.

Father, Son, and spirit. But out of that relationship of the Trinity, God Almighty created and He created us to be relational beings. And most animals even in the animal kingdom, they’re all relational, takes two to procreate. So this is a fundamental aspect of what it means to be human. And so whether you’re in the in the dating process, or you’re in marriage,

relationship with the opposite spouse, is of the utmost importance. And so we’re going to try to look at some things tonight regarding that. I’m going to read one verse, we have Bibles on the table. I’m sure many of you have Bible apps on your phone. But if you would open to, if you’re in this Bible, it’s page two.

And its genesis chapter two.

Verse 15,

so Genesis, the first book of the Bible, the second chapter, chapter two, and the 15. First.

It says, The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden, to work it and keep it.

And the Lord God commanded the man saying, you were you may eat, eat of every tree in the garden, but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil You shall not eat. For in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die. This is the one stipulation God put on mankind.

Then the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone, I will make him a helper fit for him. And so God then creates all these animals and Adam gets to name them and it and it doesn’t. It’s not suitable for him.

Let’s see here.

If you skip the verse 20

One soul, the Lord God caused the deep sleep to fall upon the man. And while he slept, he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh, and the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman, and brought her to the man. Then the man said this at last his bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man.

And the Hebrew scholars say that that little, that little response to Adam had for Eve was it wasn’t just a casual statement, like I just read it, but it was like he broke out into song and poetry. And he was he was ecstatic about this helper, his own flesh and blood that God created. And then it says, Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife and they shall become one flesh. And the man and his wife were both naked and we’re not ashamed.

The main thing I wanted to point out there is

verse eight,

When God says it’s not good that the man should be alone,

most of us can relate to that. And, and it also is also applies to male friendships as well. It’s not good that we should be alone. So anyways, that’s kind of a scriptural Christian worldview that we’re coming to the table with tonight, as given in the Bible. And but unfortunately So, so quickly a marriage relationship can be a garden full of weeds. And if we don’t tend to it, the weeds take over. We don’t see any fruit. And we’re just in trouble. But I think all of us on our wedding day we want to make, we’re going into that with the intent that this marriage is going to be awesome. And 20 years from now, it’s still going to be awesome. And so tonight, this is an attempt from these men who’ve been married longer than I have and

Bring a lot of wisdom to the table to try to help us out and say, maybe what are some warning signs of the weeds starting to grow? And what what can we do to cultivate a better marriage relationship? As we get started talking, I’m going to pass around two handouts. One of them is for a tool that you and your wife can use to just assess where you’re at in your marriage, what kind of weeds have been growing, and how can you deal with it? So start that over here. Take one pass it on. And this one is about pornography. Statistically 80% of guys struggle or or are addicted to pornography. So it’s affecting your your, your your life. And if it’s not affecting yours, it’s affecting someone very close to you. So we’re also going to pass this one around, and we’ll do take one pass around that way.

So I’m gonna

just be lobbing some questions out to you guys. And the first one I’m going to start with is


How important is it that the spiritual aspect of a marriage relationship?

What happens if your spouse isn’t of the same faith? And

any practical advice for the spirituality of our marriage? So just from a Christian worldview, how spiritual is the marriage relationship?

Go ahead, Jim. Everybody looks at me. Yeah, there’s a lot you’re a leader. You know, the text we read in adhesions. Five,

is this idea that the the marriage relationship is reflected the relationship that Christ has with his bride, the church. And so

I think that is

expresses the spirituality of marriage is that when we live in love and relationship with our wife is to be a reflection of how Christ loves the church. And it

people can see in that the love that Christ has for us. So one of the things that is an opportunity for us is to live in that spiritual unity, the tearing God does that the two of us become one flesh as well. And then we reflect the glory radius of Christ, we live out the gospel, so that people can see it more clearly. That’s part of the spirituality of marriage.

And for me, when, when you asked that question, the first thing that popped into my mind was thinking about the gospel, as well, because in the Gospel, it’s this idea that that God has reached down to us and provided an opportunity for us to connect and have a relationship with him, not based on anything that we did for him, but just what he did on our behalf. And you probably heard the idea

You know, forgiveness, that idea of forgiveness that comes from God that he extends to us. And when I think about, I mean, there’s lots of mechanics of relationships, mechanics of marriage. But when I think about if, if you try to use it, or think about marriages and engine, I think that idea of forgiveness is like the oil in the engine. And I think the way that we’re able to forgive inside the context of a marriage, the way that God would want us to is, is if we’ve adequately experienced God’s forgiveness ourselves that we’re able to extend that in the context of marriage, and I think the reason that popped into my mind is because I need a lot of forgiveness in my marriage. So

I guess I can jump on that as well. I think one of the things that was really difficult for me



She clip it to my nose. Your beard?

Totally. Yeah.

There you go.

Yeah, I really identify with that. I’d say the spiritual aspect of marriage

is what is my

power? Check, check. Other There you go.

So I’d say this the importance of spiritual aspect.

I’d say the spiritual aspect of marriage saved, who I am, and has given me a good marriage. early in life, I was super addicted to pornography. Ruin, ruin my life ruined my life until I was about 16. That was uphill battle until 20. But I grew up in the church, and I endure, I’d seen a lot of really awesome relationships, but I didn’t know what made those work. And so I think honestly

Lot of what I thought about marriage was being dictated more by the world than what God revealed about marriage and Doug read in a fusions five that the, the mystery of Christ in the church, you know, the marriage aspect, it’s a mystery is talking about the church. And so I think the saving grace for me was that moment when I confessed I had no idea what marriage was, I had no idea what it meant to be a man. I had no idea what it meant to be a man who loved a woman what the needs of a woman we’re so caught up in a worldly perspective. And so, as a good friend of mine, Fred Nelson, he calls it lie therapy. As God started confronting those lies in my life with who he was. And I began to understand the spiritual aspect of what what is this marriage relationship and really started pressing into Jesus and realizing how Jesus loves

us as His bride and the I get to be a part of that and then started receiving that love from Jesus.

And that then gave me a spiritual insight into what marriage was in a spiritual context. That’s where I found breakthrough as a man and I think without that spiritual aspect aspect of forgiveness

I don’t think I’d probably be married or that my marriage that I do have wouldn’t be the quality that it is so

spirituality Yeah.

Made who I am today.

Just want to add to what what you were talking about the you know, these questions all have the word together in it. And you know, I don’t know where you a lot of you guys are on your,

your faith walk and how long you’ve been walking with God if you’re in the exploration part or if you have a long history, but when I came when I was like, the age of a lot of you guys here, I was a new believer, you know in high school.

And shortly thereafter, you know, I drank like a fish and we partied a lot. And I had no no real strong spiritual roots. I was raised Lutheran. And so I did have a basic, you know,

attraction to Christ. But I was walking on my own. And so when I got married, it wasn’t natural for me to want to go to church all the time. It just wasn’t in in those days. So my wife was the exact opposite very conservative household church three times a week, Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday, you know, and that took some getting used to, I’m just telling you, and in

but I noticed early in my life, my married life that if I would, if I would ever avail myself to, to whatever was going on at the church.

I walked away with something, you know, I always said there was some benefit some takeaway, and even though I didn’t want to go on the drive down there sometimes on a Sunday night or Wednesday night

You know, I

I was almost subconsciously measuring it. And I think in those early years of our marriage, that consistency of doing things together with my wife, that were, you know, church related or spiritual in nature, it paid huge dividends, and it still does to this day. And so and so even an event like this, you know, just just to avail yourself to, to say, God, you know, I need you, I want you, I need your involvement in my life. And I don’t have it figured out. And we’re going to hang with the guys tonight and maybe learn something and then maybe take it back and apply it. But beyond that, if you can do things, you know, I always feel sorry for for the gal that has to go to church with her kids without her husband there. Because what a what a lost opportunity for joint growth. You know, she didn’t sign up to go to things by herself when she said yes. So, as I look at these questions, and I think of the things that made the most impact in

My life in the early days, it was the faithful, we created a routine, you know, and to this day it holds and in and now it holds true for all my kids, you know.

Another another important topic in marriages called sex, you may have heard of it.


is perhaps the core of the Apostle Paul refers to sexuality as a great mystery.

An interesting thing that I just learned last week, I don’t know how I missed it in the book of Genesis.

God creates Adam and Eve in the first chapter. And then he he blesses them and tells them to be fruitful and multiply. And so sex was actually created and even acted upon before the fall.

This is a very interesting thing. So sex is a good thing.

It’s a gift from God. It’s God’s creation. And it’s very necessary to

each generation continuing.

And it’s supposed to be the thing that brings married couple, as close as they can be. And yet so often it can be something that’s divisive. For example,

the man might complain that she’s never interested. And she complains that he lacks romantic overtures.

So how could something designed to create unity have become so divisive in marriage?

I just wonder if some of you guys want to speak on this topic of sex and maybe lessons learned the hard way. But how can you cultivate a healthy and even exciting sex life with your with your spouse? How much time we got?

I’ll dive in. I’ll dive in.

It’s in

First thing I like I come at life, I was an engineer by training in college I ended up in, in ministry. But it was always interesting to me when I, you know, analyzed sex and in the in the sense of when if you look at it from a design perspective, the way that God designed it, it seems incredibly flawed in in a lot of ways. When you look at,

just like the arousal time, like guys like me, were just like, boom, right there, women tend to be a lot longer.

Something like that. Exactly. Like, and then when you look at just the, in general, like the natural desires, you know that men tend to want to have sex much more than women want to have sex in general. So you look at it from a design perspective, and you just think, what in the world what was God thinking when he designed sex because it seems like completely out of balance. But one of the things that I’ve that I’ve looked

learned and thought about as it relates to sex is that there’s a way that things operate in God’s kingdom. And if you look at even how Jesus lived his life, not his sex life,

he was a celibate man. But the way he lived his life, life in the kingdom was always about serving other people. It was about thinking about others, as more important than yourselves. And so when I think about how God designed sex, for it to operate, the same principles of his kingdom, have to be present in how we approach our sex life. Because if if each partner is just looking out for themselves, it’s going to be miserable for both of them because the husband’s probably not going to have sex as often as he wants and he’s going to be just thinking about a quickie and taking care of him and not taking care of her if we just look out for ourselves. It’s just not going to be as exciting for for both parties. But when you have that mindset where you’re just thinking, I’m here

To serve another person, and the purpose of this is for me to serve another person, you actually get to a place where it is just one of the most exciting things there. And when you actually I, to me, I think you get to the place where you’re really there when there’s actually more pleasure and giving pleasure to another person than receiving pleasure yourself. And I think when you’re when you’re at that place,

sex is just one of the most exciting things possible. It took me like, I didn’t figure that out in the first two weeks of marriage because it was all about me for a long time. But I just thought, you know, God, this doesn’t seem like this is working the way but then I just took the same principles of the kingdom and applied it to that, and it’s gotten a lot better.

I think

we read the Justice passage about they were naked, not ashamed. And I talked about this a lot in premarital counseling and so on, is that to me,

we look at that from a sexual perspective that they you

There was a sand and so on, there’s a purity to it. And that’s true. We were designed a sexual beings. But I said, I usually connect this idea that we sometimes separate this idea of intimacy with from sexuality. Because we really, I think, as humans desire, just intimacy in general connection, deep connection. And when when the scripture says they were naked, and unashamed, I think that also revealed that they were able to bear their soul

and not have shame, that they could bear their heart and there was this intimacy, there was this closeness, there was this beauty, that there was no shame in the relationship and and then that ties into the sexuality. So one of the things that I think at the core of it and there’s a physiological urge, obviously, but there is this emotional desire to connect with my wife at a deep way and the same with my wife and son.

Sometimes what we do is we separate the intimacy and the sexuality and the act. And it feels to them being exploited when you remove the intimacy. So, for that, this is one thing I did today. My we had an elders meeting at 630. I have a meeting here at 6:30pm. I have not seen my wife all day, because I got up before her. She gets up at five I came here. I knew that. And so I went by our workplace, I set her at her desk, and she had some real exciting photos because we want to do a remodel. And we sat there for 15 minutes. And she began to go, oh, maybe I like this color. I like this. I like this. I like this. I like this. And it was very intentional to somehow connect with her on the emotional level. And so I actually view like

every aspect

Back to your day is part of that intimacy that builds the sexuality. So when I do the little text to her or the little things, to say, I accept you, I love you, I connect with you, that really enhances the sexuality part of it, because that’s what she wants and when we avoid the two, so if you miss trader, and the reality is the things you did to win your wife, you just need to keep doing them forever.

Just like you’re dating her. And you would have done that when you were dating your wife. Oh, I got 15 minutes to see her. And you would have went and saw but after 35 years of marriage, you might go ahead

and you can’t do that. And so a lot of it is just that.

pursuing her

in an in an emotional intimacy and connect however, that’s the other thing about the spirituality and MC is the more that we can connect in different levels and when the most beautiful things

Marriage is when you can connect on the spiritual intimacy as well as physical, recreational, and so on. But, yeah. Jim, when you said you showed up with exciting pictures, I thought they were going to be pictures of you

know, kind of disappointed.

Come on.

But I think your insights, Jim on like, when we’re in dating relationships, like how I pursued Charles Charles, my wife, and the way I pursued my wife in a dating relationship, and then when I realized that shift, then in marriage it for me, what that reveals in me is an embedded selfishness that there was something that I wanted, I didn’t have, I knew if I didn’t put the time into it, I’d lose it. But now, put a ring on it. And so then I kind of feel like that sense of like, I can shrink back a little bit, get lazy. So that’s convicting where you’re

Man, this topic of sex.

huge passion of mine, you


can I

didn’t even get an amen. Um, but so obviously like I said early on in my life

like I was just up to my eyeballs in perversion and pornography. So I didn’t I didn’t have the first idea about sex.

I really wanted it something you said Bob was, I think is a lie in our culture’s that this combination of having sex like I was, you know, by God’s grace a virgin clear through college clearance my wedding night how that happened. God only knows.

But in terms of the lie that our culture tells us is that somehow you’re not fully actualize. Or like you’re not done, experienced the greatest pleasures

joy that life has to offer. If you don’t have sex, I mean, that’s that’s something at least I’ve heard and grown up through. As you said, Jesus was celebrate his whole life he didn’t have sex.

But yet the abundant life is in Christ. So if Christ is on earth, and he lived his life as a celibate then somehow fullness of joy is not in Jesus. But none of us as believers would say it That’s true, and marriage ends in heaven. So there’s eternal pleasures that God’s right hand in heaven. But if marriage ceases in heaven, and there’s not sex in heaven, then our joy would be incomplete. So it’s total lie. And so as I pressed into sex with God and just saying, this huge area of pervert, I’ve just tons of masturbation, no self control.

There’s this lie in me that said sex is dirty, like your dirty God goddess.

This is something that you have to do in marriage. But

there’s me and my relationship with you, and then there’s sex.

So in terms of where we started was like what what’s, how does spirituality affect marriage?

Like I came to God been hearing a phrase a lot that sex is God’s idea.

I would affirm that wholeheartedly, but I would take it a step further. It’s like, it’s like one layer below. Sex is God’s idea. But it originates in his person, like sex is an expression of who God is not just an idea that he came up the engineer doing paper was like, Hey, this is a really great idea. It’s an expression of who he is. So Romans 120 says, For since the creation of the world, God’s invisible qualities is eternal power and divine nature. I mean, clearly seen being understood from what has been made, so that people without excuse.

Well, I think I would just want to encourage you guys to

really listen closely what Jim just said because in what what he said

there’s avoidance from from just showing up in the sack and trying to get a quickie, you know, they’ll

it just doesn’t work and if if we could if we could just reach out to you know if some of you are saying I wish my said I mean honestly, what’s the goal? begin with the end in mind what what would you like to see in your relationship with your wife

in what does that look like so if that looks like mutuality,

participate participation on both sides.

Just a great experience, then it does just doesn’t start in the bedroom. It starts by dropping by your wife’s work and saying, Hey, I don’t have much time today. Let’s just hang out for 15 minutes. Or like roses yesterday and Valentine’s she’s loves those roses. She likes them anytime, anytime in Costco

I’d say half the time I’m in Costco, I’ll pick up flowers take it home, because I finally learned after years, she loves all of the colors that are in flowers. I mean, she’s just mesmerized by color. She loves color. And so those little details like Jim was talking about, if you’re doing that part, right, when you end up in bed, it’s going to be the way it should be. And it’ll be mutual, you know, and that I mean, I just don’t know if there’s enough illustrations and stories to tell on that subject. But, but it’s something’s wrong if you’re just showing up. Hey, any me again? You know, she’s thinking, well, where were you all day? You know?

So, I was just getting the one of the best pieces of advice I got from a guy before I got married the night before I got married is he just made the comment. In relation to that. He said that foreplay starts at breakfast, in the sense that how you treat your wife from the morning on, it’s going to affect how the day and because they need context.

mean, we just need a place and barely even a place? You know, just like, let’s just go for it. But they need context like a relational context and emotional context, a spiritual context. And so, I mean, part of it is just how do we how do we create? How do we create that in an authentic way? Yeah. My wife and I’ve been married 35 years and

our our sexual intimacy, I think I enjoy it as much as I ever have. And because there is this deeper emotional intimacy connection, and it’s it, it’s it’s completed with that non sexual intimacy it is rounded out. So just wait 35 years, guys, because

all right, so a little statistic. I mentioned one earlier, pornography effects, they say 80% of men.

And another statistic is it’s

estimated that roughly 30 to 60. That’s a big gap but 30 to 60% of all married individuals in the US will engage in a marital extramarital affair at some point.

And the hope of that is

only 20% of divorces are caused by an affair. I found that interesting. But just bringing up this topic of infidelity,

looking at other women than your wife, whether that’s pornography or someone engaging with another woman,

everyone knows someone who’s ended up in divorce, probably half the room, their parents are divorced. So what what wisdom can we bring to this group tonight that

can help someone navigate

if their spouse or they themselves have been unfaithful,

And even those in the room who are already in their second marriage, or they’ve gone through a divorce, maybe a third marriage, whatever.

What wisdom Do you guys offer those who are going through that difficulty of infidelity

that are going through it, going through it have been through it.

And we can also talk about pornography. Because I think that the principle is like, if you want to break free from something in your, in your life, whatever it is, I think is bringing those things out into the light. You know, I just think bringing it into the light, obviously before God. But for me, I think since that I only confessed to God, I tend to repeat. And so I’ve just found that there’s just no substitute, especially if there’s anything around integrity. I think for me, it’s just non negotiable. That that’s got it. I’ve got to talk to somebody about that and

You know, I’ve got friends in my life that, you know, even if there’s just something a thought that just feels off about somebody that’s not my wife, I just let them know, or I’ll just say something about it. But one thing that that for in my marriage, my wife is not my accountability partner around those things. She’s not the one asking me those questions. She knows who the person is, that does ask those questions of me. But I think for her to be that person, it actually would create bondage for her. And I know that there there are people that like their wives can be their accountability partners. But for some wives, I don’t think that they’re wired to be able to handle that because it’s not something that they can actually

extend probably grace, it actually, I think creates a bondage in them and creates division in them. So I think, not that you would and I’m not saying that because to try to be hidden in any way but I just think

I just think it’s not as there are wives are not always our

accountability partners, especially around issues of sexual integrity that might have been longer than you wanted.

You know, with the

around the infidelities, well, as far as our temptations, or that sort of thing, some things that I’ve done just very actively, years ago, I wrote down everything would happen in my journal if I committed adultery. And I mean, the light just went on and on lose my job, lose trust a wife, my children, my mom would be sad.

Which is true.

And if you found out you know, I you would all be frustrated. Oh, Jim Keenan, pastor at freedom eyes wrote everything and it was it was just a healthy practice, the count the cost of sin. We are elders. We have accountability questions every Thursday morning, and our elder meeting. So one of the questions have you looked at anything? I remember one time years ago, I was having thoughts of another woman

Women in our church actually never really acted on it did anything wrong, but you know, just these thoughts about her. And so I remember I was saying, Lord, every time I think of that woman, I want to start praying for my wife. And I began to just do the connection, that okay, if I think of her, I’m going to pray for him and pray for my marriage and move my mind off what was wrong back to what was right. And just bringing things light having accountability partners, and, and

sometimes you have to cut off your arm. Jesus says cut off your hand. And you may need to take drastic measures like get rid of your phone, or get a dumb phone or whatever. And make those those statements well and then if it’s deep enough, get professional help.


Same thing if you guys it just be we know for a fact that that in a room this size, there’s there’s a

full spectrum of temptation in the enemy is alive and well. And he’s about destroying marriages. That’s what he think that’s the key least he’ll have are the fabric of our society. And if you’re not proactive on that subject,

like these guys have said about shining a light on it, number one. And number two, being proactive. What would you just said was really powerful about praying for your wife, if I thought about somebody else were to come in that things like that, just little tools. Because if you’re not running from that temptation, you will get bit, you know, and you’ll be snared. And you’re not going to have relationship with your kids anymore. Okay. And if you’re in the midst of it right now, there’s hope.

And I would say, track somebody down that you can trust, find a confident and help have that person help you shine a bright light. Because if you’re if you’re living in the darkness, it’ll last for a while, but ultimately it will get exposed anyway.

One practical tip I learned from someone I worked with who ended up having an affair is, if you work closely with a pretty woman who’s not your wife, watch out. We all work eight or more hours a day. And if you’re working side by side with pretty women or a pretty woman, and you’re only seeing your wife one or two hours a day, it’s it’s a matter of time, especially if that other person’s not married, or their marriage isn’t great. So that was his 2020 hindsight. It’s like, don’t work closely with a beautiful woman eight hours a day, five years, you know, hire ugly.

That wasn’t the last word. Yeah.

That’s right. tattoo that on your own.

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